Momena Ali

MA: So, I...in that time, I realized that the local authority wouldn't be able to fund or sustain this, and I wanted to set this up for good in the community. So, I then enquired in the third sector if there was a possibility of, you know, making this into a sort of like a third sector organization, this pilot project. Because I've got all the information, I've got all the research. And then one of my contacts in the community told me of an organization called CEMVO, which was an organization based in England but they had come to do some work in Wales. And they appointed a director, and her name was Rocio Cifuentes. She's a very important person in my life. I'll explain how. So Rocio was the director of this organization called CEMVO. I think it was Council for Voluntary...I can't remember the whole acronym at the moment. But it was basically…their aim of that organization was to help ethnic minority organizations, small groups, to build their capacity, you know, help them to kind of set up and build their capacity. So it was exactly what I needed. But I didn't have the...enough time or the resources to be able to do that all by myself, because I still had my day job. So my day job was mentoring, you know, in the schools for this pilot project. So in that time, I met Rocio, I gave her the whole background of my life. I told her exactly where I was coming from, the vision I've had since I was 16, 17, and I wanted to set up this mentoring support for young people. I told her, look, this is the research I've done, this is the data, this is the positive impact. And then I told her that I've already enquired about...I went to the training centre part of the local authority, and I asked for funding for two modern apprenticeships. So I would train two people from the community to become mentors. Because one thing I recognized after a while, there was still slight barrier for me in...to break into certain community groups, even within my own Bengali community. Certain areas it was still hard for me to break in because I was a female. And then to be able to have those conversations with the young boys and their dads was very difficult. So, there was so many families I felt like I couldn't fully help because there was that cultural barrier where they felt, 'Who is this woman telling us what to do? Who is this woman telling me my son shouldn't join the family business?' You know, there was this kind of disrespect there. And I could feel that, you know, maybe if it was a male mentor, maybe that would be more impactful. So I decided that maybe I would train up two people from our community to become mentors. So I trained up two young people at the time, known as...well, they are still part of EYST, Helal, who is now the co-director in EYST, and Nicky, who is their youth lead. So they became trained to become mentors. So, in that time, while I was meeting Rocio, all that was being done in the background. Rocio then said, 'This is brilliant, I can see this really, you know, building...I can see this organization, you know, growing, it's fantastic concept and I...you know, it's really something amazing that will help.' Rocio comes from a social science background as well. And she did her, I think, sociology degree in Oxford University, or Cambridge, actually. She did it at Cambridge. So she is now the Children's Commissioner for Wales. So, she's now the first ethnic minority refugee background Children's Commissioner for Wales. So, the third Children's Commissioner for Wales. So, she's moved on and doing amazing things as well. So, Rocio took the project literally under her wing. She helped me set up the whole infrastructure to constitute it, to make it into the EYST brand name. We...the...we actually got the young people to come up with a name. We wanted 'youth' there, we wanted 'ethnic minority' there for the funding purposes. So one of the...it was actually Nicky, the youth worker, he said, 'Oh, why don't we call ourselves EYST, Ethnic Youth Support Team, because we support the youth?' So that's how the name came up. We got one of the young people, who was actually one of my relatives, he was doing his graphics degree, he designed the logo. So everything was re...the resources that we didn't have, we used it from our sort of connections. And the local authority at the time, they supported me in that. They gave me a building. And they said, 'Look, it's a derelict building we don’t...we...you can take it at your own risk.' So the school, Dynevor School, which was the school, my filter school, the one I told you about all the ethnic minorities went to, that because...that school got sold. So it was going to be two or three years before the university take over that building. So I had the school for a year. So we cleaned up the school, the young kids helped us clean it up. We got sofas donated, dartboard donated. So we basically set up a youth club with all the resources from the community. And that's how the pilot sort of kicked off and did really well. In the first week we opened, we had forty young people...young boys coming into our centre for help, for mentoring, for support, for activities. So we worked with the police, we worked with the drugs agencies, we worked with Alcohol Anonymous, gambling. All the agencies that we knew there was issues, we brought those expertise in. Then we worked with other employers looking at ethnic minority employment. So, we worked with partners and just set it up really as an organization where we would be the bridge between the...whether it's employment, training or education, and the ethnic minority kids. They needed the kids, we had the kids. They...you know, they needed the numbers, and we worked together to create those opportunities. So EYST just basically because...we first...put our first bid in when the funding was ending for the apprenticeships. They were only a one-year funding from the local authority. And as for my role, they...because it was so successful, they decided to keep me on. So I worked for fifteen years with the local authority as their education mentor. So, I became an education mentor. There...the thing that I wanted to be, I became. But it wasn't enough to just have me as one person, I knew I needed to create a team myself. But the local authority, unfortunately, a lot of the government initiatives tend to be quite tokenistic, where once they employ that one person, they think that's going to do the job for everyone. But I knew that wasn't physically possible. So I decided that whilst I stay in employment with the local authority, they were very...they were actually very good in that they said, 'Look, we can't set up a team for you, but you can be there, but you can support the growth of EYST.' So they allowed my...some of my time where I wasn't in schools, I was able to then spend setting up EYST. So the first fifteen years of EYST, I was employed by the local authority, but I was then putting my time and my resources, everything into EYST as well. At the same time, going into schools, bringing EYST as the additional staff into schools with myself.

MP: So, what are the main challenges that you faced in setting up EYST, looking back?

MA: So, initially, the biggest challenge I would say I faced initially was from my own community, which was really shocking, you know, for me. I think because, like I said, the research project was for males, you know, the specific was Bangladeshi males. Also at the time, there was an organization in Swansea, ethnic minority organization known as MEWN, Minority Ethnic Women's Network. So, they were working with, as they said, ladies and girls. So, it was like difficult for me to then set up something for girls, because they would feel like I'm kind of, you know, taking over their work. So, what I used to do, I used to provide my services to them. So I would go into MEWN and mentor the girls. But then I would do the main mentoring for the boys, which was what the funding was for. So, when I started setting up like these groups, and then I set up the first youth group in that derelict school building, a lot of the community were quite...the cultural community, I should say, were putting a lot of pressure on my family, like, 'What is she doing? She's a female setting up a male-only organization, running a male-only...' So there's a lot of those cultural barriers I faced. A lot of them kind of tried to boycott it by not supporting it. And in the end their...it was their own sons that needed help, and they came to us for help. So they could see that I was still, you know, keeping my integrity as a Muslim woman, as a Bengali. I wasn't breaking anything really, culturally. But there were some families felt threatened because I was working with the police on the Forced Marriage Bill, and I was working actively to prevent forced marriages taking place. And I think that was huge for the community. And they were very, very frustrated by that, because they felt I was on the other side. But I was trying to explain to them, look, religiously, you're doing a wrong thing. You know, culturally, you might think it's your right to choose your child's spouse but religiously, no. It's conflict, you know? And in fact, Islamically, I gave them the Islamic evidence. I said, if you force your daughter to marry your nephew from back home, and she doesn't consent to the marriage, that's a false testimony, which means that the contract is not even valid. For the contract to be valid, it has to be her free will. So I even broke it down to that, like, 'This is what you're doing, it's wrong, you can't do this'. I mean, there was a lot of backlash, lot of backlash for me. You know, even people were threatening, saying like, 'Oh, you know, you're probably going to never get married because of your ideas.' They saw me like a feminist, a sort of extremist or something, I don’t know. But I just didn’t care, to be honest, because I always had this thing, I'm not going to do what makes people happy, I'm going to do what's right. You know, what is right for me is more important than what...people-pleasing, you know? So, I always had that attitude, you know? And I think also it helps that I had six brothers. You know, so although there was a lot of frustration from what I was doing initially, but because I had six brothers and I was from the family that I was from, like there was a lot of respect for my dad, even though he had passed away, I think nobody actually went too far in making it impossible for me to carry on. They kind of let me still carry on doing the work. And within...to be honest, within a few years, they could see the results, the positive impact.

MP: And what...so, what difference did it make that you had six brothers?

MA: I think because culturally, I hate to say this, but when you’re just...imagine if I had six sisters and I was one of six girls, my mum would be too weak to manage the pressure externally from the community and the culture. But because I had six brothers, the dynamic is different, you know? Although it shouldn't be the case, but unfortunately that is the case. So I think the pressure was less, you know? They...I think because they...like even with my own brothers...everyone was supportive of what I was doing within my immediate family. Nobody saw it as a problem, even though some of the community...I mean, it wasn't all the community. There were certain parts in the community. When I say there's certain geographical areas where there is more poverty, there is more, you know, lack of education, and the cultural perceptions are much more stronger in terms of what...you know, the differences between boys and girls. Those areas were a bit more challenging.

MP: Which areas are those?

MA: So, in Swansea, it was an area called Hafod that was very difficult to work in initially. But eventually, to be honest, I think as long as you're respectful, I think it's really important when you're trying to fight for something that you don't lose your...you know, you don't let anger take over your passion. You can still be passionate but yet respectful and understanding of people’s...where people are coming from.

MP: And so, you've talked about the way in which EYST has started in Swansea. You've done a lot of work in Swansea and the way you've done like different things in other parts of Wales. What's it like to be South Asian in Wales? And is it different to be South Asian in different parts of Wales?

MA: Yeah, I think so. I think in communities like Swansea, it's...Swansea, when I was growing up...it's become much more diverse now, but when I was growing up, it was majority Bengali community. It was quite unique in that normally there's quite a mix of Pakistan...there was very few Pakistani community there. It was mainly Bengali community. I would say when I was graduating and looking at my research, and 80 per cent of the community was Bengali, of the ethnic community in Swansea. So it was quite unique in that you kind of knew your Bengali identity much stronger than if you mixed, I suppose, more with other communities and other cultures. So there was that. And I think in different parts, like Cardiff...now that I've moved to Cardiff – so I lived in Swansea all my life, and then I moved to Cardiff in 2018, and it's very different to Swansea. So different. Because it's so much more diverse. Much more diverse than Swansea. And I would say it's much more forward-thinking than Swansea in terms of a community. There are so many more opportunities. You will see ethnic minority females, males in so many different roles, professionally, in schools, in everywhere, every walk of life you'll see. Whereas Swansea doesn't have that many role models of different professions. With Cardiff, obviously it’s the capital, so the diversity is much more different, the integration is much more, the opportunities are much more. So I've seen a difference in different parts. And obviously you go to the rural parts of Wales, it's even more different and isolating there, you know, and I know we support some families in those areas. And the racism is really bad in those areas, unfortunately. Isolation is a huge problem. You know, cultural sort of identity, you know, is threatened all the time. You know, what you wear, what you dress. And in Cardiff I find that you could wear shalwar kameez, you could wear a full burqa, you could wear a thobe (men's dress), you could walk around, nobody batters an eyelid. But Swansea, it’s still not as diverse. Swansea, there are still places where you would walk and you would be threatened because of the way you dress, you know? So it is different, I would say for...the more, I think, dense the population is of diversity and ethnic minorities, the more easier it is, I think to live your identity outwardly. Yeah.

MP: And what about north Wales?

MA: North Wales, so we have, like I said, work there. It is...there's a lot of issues, you know? Again because of lack of diversity, lack of understanding, there's a lot of ignorance. I would take north Wales where...how I...we were when we started in Swansea. It's kind of going back. Sometimes when colleagues share stories of what's happening in schools there and communities there, it kind of takes me back to thirty years ago, you know? So I think, you know, they're going through those challenges that we had gone through. Although a lot of our challenges are still the same. I mean, what really frustrates me, I would say, about education is that for thirty years, you know, I've been saying the same thing about schools, institutional racism and how schools are tackling racism, they mix it up with bullying, they...you know, they don't label it for what it is, they don't call it out for what it is. And, you know, so much research has gone into this work, and we're still talking about it. You know, so many recommendations have been given to the Welsh Government about reforming the education system, and we're still talking about it. So it's quite frustrating that some of the issues are still the same. You know, but they've just taken a...maybe they're not as...you know, as open as they used to be, but they're still there. They're still underlining issues. Like, we’re looking...we've got a project now called the Right to Education in EYST. It's a three-year project looking at specifically exclusions. Because statistically it shows that ethnic minorities are excluded far more quickly than their non-white...their white counterparts in the same kind of incident. They could commit the same thing, but they would be excluded, and the other one would be just having a day off or something like that. So it's an unfair system, just like the criminal justice system. It's exactly the same. The schools operate in the same way. And, you know, it's really frustrating that even after all this time this...the school as an institute is still making those mistakes...I won't call them mistakes, they're still making those decisions that are unfair and that are so drastic against ethnic minority young kids. So we are working with schools and lobbying with the government to try and change this. And it just seems like sometimes you...I get like frustrated, it's like, oh my God, twenty years and still... And then I think to myself, you know what, if in that twenty years it's made a difference to one person, then it's worth it. And I remember my teacher sharing a story with me. It was a story about the starfish. There was a man walking on the beach, and he saw this young man throwing starfishes back to the sea. And there was thousands of them. And he was picking them, and he was thinking, 'That's so strange, what is he doing?' So he went up and he said, 'Young man what are you doing?' He said, 'Oh, I'm throwing the starfish back at the sea to save them, basically.' And then he said to him, 'You know, look around you, there's thousands of them, what difference is it going to make?' And as he said, he threw it back in, and then he said, 'It made a difference to that one.' And I remember my teacher sharing that story with me. And he said, 'Look, you know, if you can make a difference to one person's life, it's worth it.' And even in my own faith, it says as if you save one...and it is in the Bible as well, the same teaching, you save a person, you save the whole of humanity. You kill a person, you kill the whole of humanity. It's like, that's how, you know, how precious a human life is. That if you can make a change in one person's life. So for me, EYST is worth it. If one person can come and say, because of EYST, I was saved from this, because of EYST, I'm now able to do this, that's enough for me. And we have many stories. So it is still worth it, even though I feel frustrated sometimes with the system. But I think the system is what it is, and we've got to keep fighting and keep working towards changing it.

MA: Yeah, I think I recognize my Welsh identity when I actually visit my cousins up north. You know, I think my accident...accent, sorry, my accent is one.

MP: Up north in England?

MA: England...yeah, in England, yeah. I think when we go out of the border, you then realize you are Welsh, you know? And I think, yeah, I do have a sense of pride in my Welsh identity. I'm really grateful to be in Wales. I think growing up in Wales is a privilege. Because I see...obviously, we've got family networks across UK, and I see how other relatives have grown up in different parts of England. And I think as much as there is ignorance in Wales, there's also kindness. And I feel like people are much more relaxed. And there's much more like community, sense of community. So like I said, when I grew up, I grew up in a community that wasn't just Bengali, it was a community. And I think that kind of feeling is more in Wales than I would say in lots of parts of England, you know? So I think, yeah, being Welsh, yeah, I did learn Welsh, actually, in school, but I didn't take it further. I mean, it was compulsory growing up. So I used to love my Welsh teacher. And she ended up being a neighbour years later. And unfortunately, she died of cancer. So, I see her husband quite regularly, he lives on my mum's street. So, I remember learning Welsh. And the fascinating thing about Welsh was a lot of the sounds are in Bengali, Sylheti language. So, she used to get so proud when I used to say certain Welsh words. She'd be like, 'Oh, that's amazing, Mumina. Can you say it again?' So she would get me to say in the class again, because I had...there's a lot of 'hgg, hgg', and that kind of sounds in Welsh. So, Bengali has that as well, Sylheti Bengali has that. So, like Llanelli is where my grandfather, you know, set up the first bus...where he moved and set up the first business. So, when I used to say 'Llanelli', they would be like, 'Wow, that's so Welsh'. So yeah, there was a connection with the language because of the sounds. Because obviously, if you have a certain dialect, you might not be able to say those sounds easily. Like Arabic is not my language, for example. And obviously, we read the Qur'an in Arabic. And it was a lot of hard work to try and get those sounds right, you know, because it's not my natural sort of language. So, whereas Welsh and Bengali, fascinating, like the sounds were so similar that I could say Welsh words very, very easily. Yeah, so I did enjoy Welsh in school. Obviously, we celebrated all the Welsh, Eisteddfod in school, St David's Day. So, you know, wearing the Welsh costume in primary school. So, there was a lot of connection there growing up. So, I would say it is part of my identity as well. Maybe not as strong as I grew. I would say since I left GCSEs, it was less of Welsh influence, you know.

MP: And what about British identity?

MA: I think it's there but not as strong as the Welsh, I would say. It's there in that I've got a British passport, you know? And that's it, I think, in terms of...yeah. But I think when you think about the country as a whole, yes, you see yourself as British, of course, you know? But when you look at it a bit more closer, then it becomes the Welsh, you know, in there, in terms of nationality.

• EYST Wales

Entry credit

Jess Farr-Cox